OKLAHOMA CITY, Okla. — On Monday, instead of giving answers about their finances, the Oklahoma State Department of Mental Health and Substance Abuse Services (ODMHSAS) told state lawmakers they don’t know how bad things are, they need help and there was even talk of possible fraud and corruption within the agency.

Monday’s hearing showed things aren’t just bad, they’re downright terrible. Frustration now boiled over into downright anger.

“I have zero confidence that our finance team is able to tell me there are funds to be able to make payroll,” said Michael Rupke, ODMHSAS Finance Department.

State lawmakers held another round of hearings with the leaders of ODMHSAS and Commissioner Allie Friesen simply said her agency cannot get to the bottom of its multi-million dollar deficit.

“We realize how frustrating and infuriating this is. These numbers are changing not because we’re indecisive or disorganized, but we are for the first time in a very long time uncovering the full depth of financial instability that has been hidden under layers of dysfunction,” Friesen said.

One lawmaker was told out in the open the spreadsheets he was looking at were not even worth the paper they were printed on.

“The spreadsheets you may be going from, there’s not a tremendous amount of confidence in those,” said State Rep. Mark Lawson (R-Sapulpa).

In addition to an entire agency tens of millions of dollars in debt, there is now a rush to approve $23 million more for the agency just to make sure their payroll checks won’t bounce.

Last week, FOX23 reported many employees working at the department were told the agency is so broke that there was a chance employees could miss one or even two paychecks.

“The House and the Senate are saying we’re going to keep payroll, but after that, nothing else happens until we have a better understanding of what their numbers are,” said State Sen. Paul Rossino (R-Oklahoma City).

Rossino is the head of the Senate Health and Human Services Committee.

His outrage that the agency doesn’t know how bad things really are was clearly seen.

“I’m at the point where I feel that we’re getting down to any significant number and we’ve been doing this for months, months and months. The taxpayers of Oklahoma, the people of Oklahoma who provide these services for aren’t getting those answers either,” Rossino said.

Rossino said the agency doesn’t need anymore money in next year’s budget. He said the agency is well funded. It just can’t manage its finances in a responsible and accountable way.

“I don’t think they need more money. I just don’t think they have the sophistication to figure it out and until they do, I think it would be irresponsible of us to approve a larger budget when we don’t even know what they really need,” Rossino said.

Lawson has been chairing these special hearings and said the priority is to make sure people who actually did work for the state get paid. As for the agency’s finances itself, he said there’s still lots of work to do and lawmakers deserve better answers.

“If there was anything to take away from today, it was that they can’t do it the way they’ve been doing it. They need additional help. We stand at the ready to help them get to that good number,” Lawson said.

How badly is ODMHSAS in debt? The truth of the matter is, especially after Monday’s hearing, no one really knows, but it’s a lot.

FOX23 is going to stick with the number $63 million in debt because that is what was first reported to lawmakers and shared with reporters.

The Department of Mental Health has said they think their number is possibly around $40 million to $63 million.

The Legislative Office of Fiscal Transparency said they believe it could be more than $20 million to $30 million.

But in all, on Monday, lawmakers were told any budget projections presented to them by the agency to work with are not reliable.

Attorney General Gentner Drummond for the second time in less than a week called for Commissioner Friesen’s firing saying she waited too long to report how bad her agency’s finances are. You can read Drummond’s statements below:

“Commissioner Friesen offered no satisfactory answers for the agency’s ability or inability to meet payroll obligations. The commissioner is simply not equipped for the job – and she never was,” Drummond said. “Gov. Stitt hired a counselor who doesn’t have a license to run our Mental Health Department, nor does she have the leadership experience. Is it any wonder the department is in financial meltdown?”

“Oklahomans who are suffering from mental health challenges and substance abuse are the ones who stand to lose the most while this fiasco continues to play out,” Drummond said. “The buck stops with the commissioner and the governor. It is past time for Gov. Stitt to take action and correct course.”

Governor Stitt said he will not fire Friesen and has previously said she was put in there to find wrongdoing and bring it to light.

Instead, on Friday, he issued executive orders on the following three things:

1. A nationally respected, independent financial expert will be brought in to take temporary control of the department’s finances.
2. The governor will name a well-regarded attorney with experience in complex investigations to conduct a full and independent review of the agency.
3. The CEO of the Oklahoma Health Care Authority will conduct a full top-to-bottom review of all Medicaid and federal functions within the agency.